How much longer can we continue to function as the divide between our two halves grows exponentially? Finger pointing. Name calling. Ostracizing. Claiming we all want to be more united, but judging each other so harshly in the process that we become hypocrites in words and actions.
Hypocrites and fools.
I shake my head at the lot of us.
Because your words confuse and hurt me and my first instinct is to hurt you back. I want to find the stats that refute the ones you threw in my face. I want to argue my beliefs and values that run counter to yours. I want to pull you from your pedestal, from your pulpit, from your soap box and leave you confused and hurting on the ground.
Would that solve anything?
So, when you post your political rants, your blues are wingnuts diatribes, your reds are morons ventings, I won’t be liking, I won’t be commenting. I’m not going to add my foolish voice to yours. It’s loud enough in here already.
And you, dear kingdomites?
Do you like reading political posts? Do you like jumping into the fray and arguing your side of the debate? Or, have you grown tired of the fighting too?
127 thoughts on “I’m a fool, too”
I do love politics. And I think it is important to pay attention an learn what’s going on. So I read and write political posts (although I have been holding my tongue for a while now).
And it is funny — some people follow me just for the political posts; some seem to click “X” when they realize that’s what it is. Works for me!
I’ll read them. I read them all… I like to know what everyone is thinking, what everyone has heard or learned or etc…
But, I’m not going to support those posts that do nothing but further the divide. If that makes sense…?
But DJ! Those other posts are wrong! Completely wrong! … 😉
I’ve wanted to say that several times in the last couple days.
As much as I was joking, I was serious too. There are some folks out there who are just so very mistaken. Not you, of course. Not me. Others.
That’s just because we haven’t figured out how to breed the stupid out of people yet….
We could make a fortune if we could develop a drug for that one!
I’d be too afraid the government would get their hands on it and tweak it into something else.
Amen! I jump in every now and then but it usually ends up being a huge mistake!
Brave of you to jump in. I’ve wanted to, several times, especially when I’ve felt insulted…
I’ll argue, but not with people on the internet. I learned a long time ago, that the only productive discussions occur between two people with enough respect for each other to understand that neither is an idiot. One of them might be wrong, but not an idiot.
But I’ll read just about all of it.
Yes, agreed. I have conversations with family and friends in person. That works… and on occasion has even swayed an opinion one way or the other.
(And, thanks for leaving a comment! 😀 )
We have friends, family and acquaintances who are very vocal in their diverse political views. The one thing that they all have in common is their intolerance for any view other than their own. They do not want to hear anything that contradicts them. And if they do, they just raise their own voice to drown out everyone else. We do our best not to engage in these debates, ultimately, because no one is actually interested in learning anything new.
That’s exactly what the whole political arena seems like now. Who can yell the loudest. Who can dig up the most dirt on the other side. Who can think of the most creative (and offensive) derogatory terms to refer to their opposites.
So very true. It’s no longer about exchanging differing ideas but about who can “win” at the mud slinging.
Victory! I called you worse names than you could think to call me.
I’ve gotten tired of political debates. It is worse than religious debates. Both sides think they are absolute right in the party line, that they don’t seem to actually think for themselves. It is sad.
(Although now and again it is fun to troll them to watch them foam at the mouth a little, lol).
Hah! I think you and I have different ideas of “fun.” 😉
And, haven’t you heard? Thinking for ourselves is overrated.
I don’t often get involved. People with strong opinions will fight to the death to defend them, and it’s really not to my benefit to get worked up over anything. Sometimes I don’t have an opinion one way or another, but if I think someone’s wrong I just kinda chuckle to myself knowing the other person is a doofus and carry on with my life.
Political and religious debates often devolve into anger and insults, and it’s all so pointless.
Yep, pointless when it reaches that level. My fear, my current observations, is that the anger and insults have become part of those discussions from the beginning. People can’t say, “I believe x and y, because z,” without also adding, “and the other side is wrong because they are dummy heads.”
Frustrating and sad… and not very productive for our country as a whole.
Not at all.
Any thoughts on how we can change that?
Cuz, I’ve got nothing.
Short of blowing everything up and starting from scratch…I don’t either.
Don’t give up so quickly… I like this idea of yours…
Sounds like a lot of work, though.
Well, sure… but, anything worth doing requires hard work.
Idk…getting drunk isn’t that hard.
Gotta work for the money to buy the car and the gas to get you to the store where you can then buy the beer. Plus, you need clothes too, so that’s more working to afford that. And if you are already going to the effort, you might as well buy something worth drinking, so that’s more working to afford that…
Seems like a lot of work to me.
You make things too complicated.
All part of my charm.
That’s charming? According to whom?
Me. Obviously. Nobody else would say that.
I figured. Just thought I’d check, though.
Always wise to check up on me.
Wise or foolish? I haven’t decided yet.
A jester left free, unchecked, to run amok is a very scary thing.
Indeed, but leaving me in charge is just as scary.
Who said anything about leaving you in charge?
Some dude whose name I can’t recall.
If you don’t remember his name, how do I know who to shake my fist at?
Just shake your fist at everyone. I’m sure they all deserve it for some reason or another.
*shaking fist* Everyone!!!!!
Um, wait, wouldn’t that include you?
I’m wrong, too.
Really? That’s too bad. What were you wrong about?
Everything, more than likely.
Hmm, that seems unlikely. But, I guess you would know best… though, I could be wrong about that.
Well, if I’m wrong about everything I’m wrong about that, right? Geez, this is confusing.
Yep, very confusing. Maybe if we had a time machine we could go back in time and sort this all out…
I’d do more exciting things with a time machine.
Dinosaurs? Winning lottery ticket numbers? Keep Lucas from putting Jar Jar in the new trilogy?
Um, I wouldn’t DO dinosaurs, but I might go visit them. Yes to the other two.
Gross. Why must you always take it to the gutter!!!!
I didn’t take it anywhere. This is just where I am.
Well, that’s a silly place to be.
Depends on who you are hanging out with?
Do you have the keys to the Death Star?
Dang. That would have made it a bit easier.
I love and hate the political debates. Of course, I agree with our friend Elyse, the crazy woman, because I love and agree with her leanings. The derision is awful but if two parties can have a civil go at a debate and still laugh about things, I hope the future of humans will improve.
Far more optimistic than I am at the moment…
I don’t see us laughing with each other any time in the near future. The split is just going to keep getting worse.
Bravo! I despise politics and the way it is handled by both its participants and its fans. If I can tell a post is trying to argue a political point, I will quickly move on… I don’t care, and chances are I don’t like your side since I equally dislike both sides…
I much prefer political posts complaining about political posts….
I realized about halfway through writing my rant, that I was in fact doing exactly what I was arguing against. Calling out the people who name-call on opposite sides, hence, we all become hypocrites and fools. Me included.
I don’t write political posts (duh) but I don’t mind reading them. I would never write one because I don’t want to be pulled into the mess.
I actually sought them out at one point… I wanted to read what everyone had to say on all sides…
But, recently it just seems like all anyone wants to do is sling mud.
Recently? I think the slinging mud politically has been going on for thousands of years. Remember the Roman times? Medieval times? Haha. Nothing new.
An excellent point… mud slinging and politics do go hand in hand. That actually makes me sadder about the whole thing. Shouldn’t we have “grown up” by now?
You raise some intelligent points. Naturally cause you are intelligent. The bottom line for me, I used to be very political. but I’m Canadian and so we’re polite (lol) Now I do not get involved in political discussion. It’s not worth the drama I just read the papers and some magazines so I know what’s going on. but I save my energy for other things.
Like writing awesome fiction, where we can control the drama. 😉
I remember reading comparisons between high context culture, and low context culture. High Context is about identification, tight-knit social structures, and dependency on dichotomies– who is “us” and “them”, to be exclusionary. Social rules are well defined, to also delineate who is included, and who is excluded. Examples include the Deaf, the Blind, gender-specific (-man, -woman, -tor, -trix) references. Low context culture is more about inclusion, low barriers for entry into a group, looser social rules. Examples include many so-callled “politically correct” references: hearing-impaired, visually impaired, gender-neutral references.
I suspect problems primarily come from conflicts between people that use High Context references, and who are extreme, and those who use low context references, and who are more non-confrontational. But it seems generally a part of human nature to define by dichotomy, and of course, it’s not all religion and politics. What about the “have” and “have-nots” (money)? Or the “prudish” and the “lewd” (sex)? I assure you, being “poor” and “kinky”, I am still judged as much as I am “Mormon”, “Taoist” and “classical liberal”.
You are right, the dichotomy exists across multiple facets of our society… In general, I have just grown tired of how much the political arena has devolved into name calling and mud slinging rather than actually discussing issues and potential resolutions… And, perhaps that is how it has always been and I’m just finally getting old enough and interested enough to pay attention to what the talking heads are saying.
It is tiring. The best explanation I saw was on public television– a local professor explaining that the political parties have become well ideologically sorted while the general public, well, has not. Also, I’ve read that a lot of the grandstanding, muckracking, and such is because the politicians want to make sure they look true to their position while the cameras are running, rather than make the necessary compromises to get work done. Heaven forbid they should look wishy-washy or weak to their constituents. Blame it on the C-SPAN.
I would blame it on C-SPAN, because that sounds like fun, but C-SPAN wouldn’t show that if the public didn’t want to watch it… so, I have to blame the people that continue to watch.
It’s a cycle… I’d say they’re likely all equally complicit. Those that give, and those that receive.
Yes, in theory. They should be held to some sort of standard that is above that kind of inaneness. But, they are, at core, a business, and will do what they must to be a successful business. They are providing the supply for the demand… if the demand was elsewhere then they would have to supply something else to be successful.
It makes you wonder about suggestions that nations should be run like businesses then, doesn’t it?
Are you trying to goad me into a political debate?
The money aspect makes sense… Successful businesses are very good at managing money (for the most part). If a nation were run like a non-profit, for example, in theory they would be very good at accounting for every dollar in and every dollar out while still doing their best to provide for their customers (the people of the nation).
Wouldn’t you feel better about having people like that in charge, instead of people who were elected to their positions on the backs of the people who had the money?
No, my intent isn’t to goad. I’m just pondering things aloud and trying to get your frame of reference on things.
My immediate thought is that it’s a nice theory, but you did say ‘non-profit’… I mean to say that you may be referring to best practices rather than common scenarios.
I like the idea; don’t get me wrong. My concerns are along the lines of: Who does quality control? Who does oversight? How do we avoid the “asking the fox to guard the henhouse” dilemma? My intent is not to argue, but merely to ask how realistically these expectations might be carried out.
If I had any good answers for you I’d be running for office myself.
The problem with good theories is that reality always seems to get in the way, right? It is impossible to plan for all scenarios. It is impossible to completely factor in human behavior and frailties. The best we can do is come up with theories that make sense based on everything we know about the way of the world, and then do our best to implement it… and then have a good backup plan for when it inevitably fails.
I really don’t read them, but part of that is because it’s mostly about the states and being I’m in Canada I can’t say much, nor do I really want to. I’m aware of what’s going on, but what good is it going to do to rant about it. It just makes everyone miserable and then people forget to see that there is some good in this world.
There is good in this world?
Well, there is hope, and we can agree that is a good thing, maybe the best of things.
😉 The key word there is Redemption, actually.
Some political posters (like Elyse) have something to contribute. Some just want to spew.
I enjoy reading and debating with those that put out well-thought pieces of any viewpoint.
The rest, not so much.
I’m glad there are still arenas (posts and bloggers) out there where actual discourse can happen in a supportive environment….
Maybe I need to read more of Elyse’s posts to make me feel better about all of this.
I get enough of it in my daily life, so if I do read that type of post, I don’t participate in the debate.
No point, really. (Unless there was something I didn’t understand. Then I ask. )
See, I wouldn’t even question something I didn’t understand. I wouldn’t want my ignorance of the subject to be a flag for someone to jump in and spew further rantings.
They’re ranting anyways, and asking a question usually diverts them from insulting each other, so I find it to be a win-win. But I can understand your feelings on the matter.
Hadn’t thought about it as a distraction from the insults… I’m not in the right mood to play peace keeper like that at the moment.
In real life, yep, I’ll take on a political debate without a second thought. In blog life, with the sole and very real exception of Elyse and ListOfX (who only narrowly counts), I don’t even read them.
You’re so right… it’s plenty of noisy already on the ‘net.
Thinking about putting on noise cancelling headphones… Do you think that will help?
Tired….but sometimes I jump in…especially when all the facts are not represented. sighs… most of the time not though.
I applaud those brave enough to help bring facts into these sorts of arguments… they seem to be met with the most criticism…
I have an opinion on a lot of things, but more often than not when these debates come up I only know what I have read (often biased I guess) or form an opinion out of an assumption (which may or may not be accurate) so generally I dont get involved on most occasions.
Yeah… that’s how I feel sometimes too. I do try to hear and understand both sides of an argument, but, in the end I go with what my gut says (what makes the most sense for me and my family) and right now it seems that isn’t acceptable – if we aren’t thinking globally, we are being selfish and our opinions aren’t valid.
Absolutely, You have to look after you and your own first and foremost.
Hooray for some common sense. Thank you.
Our default pattern of debate IS counterproductive and polarizing – and exasperating. I try to go into political discussions genuinely interested in why another person feels so differently, because who knows? Some people have great reasons for supporting the other side. Those aren’t usually the people who fight on the internet, though.
Part of why I started my blog was to research and write about things going on around the world and engage people I wouldn’t otherwise interact with. I think we can always gain something from another perspective, even if it’s toootally ridiculous 😉.
Yes! Just from conversations I’ve had with the people I interact with on here on a daily basis, I know I’m followed and follow people from all walks of life and political leanings. And I do enjoy finding out why they feel a certain way. Knowledge is a powerful thing, and getting an understanding on how other people view the world can only be a good thing.
I don’t want anything to do with the name calling.
Yeah name-calling is always uncalled for, unless someone takes the last piece of cheesecake. I’ll admit, I’ve done it before. I was young and naive, and thankfully no one appeared to notice- at least to my face.
Stealing the last piece of cheesecake is an unforgiveable sin and should be met with name-calling. But, it is better than stealing the last piece of chocolate cake – that’s a mortal sin and should be met with stone throwing. 😉
That’s why I always have a backup cake on hand… so we never run out. It’s the prudent thing to do.
Good man. But you could at least jump into the forum of CANADIAN politics, right? It’s very generally polite.
I’ve heard that.
I think I’d actually prefer Ukrainian politics. Did you see the fist fight they broke into the other day? Apparently that’s a normal occurrence.
I think it’s a good plan… any time you disagree just throw down and the person who wins carries the vote, right?
No? Bad idea?
Dang… I thought I was on to something there…
I think you’d make a good anarchist.
Who I am in the real world is not necessarily who I present myself as here. The Queen and Little Prince… well, I need to live the life that provides the best for them that I can.
I think blogging obscures who people are to a large degree and gives us the comfort of having the time to present the image that we wish, rather than who we necessarily are. I don’t think the difference is always large, in some cases it might be small. In my case, it’s large.
Really? That surprises me. Your voice is so clear… I’d have thought you were exactly who you seemed to be. Like Rara… her blogging persona is who she is in real life.
Nope, in real life I’m an engineer and work in a very stuffy field and I don’t talk about writing or bugnuttery or anything in the least interesting for the many many hours a day I am at work. I think I am very sane, and very reserved, but I don’t want my writing to be that way. I want it to ring.
Ah, an engineer. Well, that explains everything… 😛
It’s worse. I have three degrees in it, each one more boring than the last. I’m positively demented with boredom. Hence the bugnuts.
3 degrees in engineering? I didn’t even know that was possible!! 😉
My dad is an engineer, so I’m well versed in the way their minds work.
And yes, the bugnuts makes complete sense now.
Spent too long in uni… it’s totally possible to get three, you need it to teach, which was once a goal. I consider myself highly professorial. But not in any good way.
Cheers to your dad.
I couldn’t get out of college fast enough. The structure never sat well with me. Plus, at some point I realized it was a business more interested in the money they were bringing in than they were in actually educating their students and I lost all interest in going for additional degrees after that.
Yeah. I was just interested in hanging out and partying, which I did a lot of. Like, a lot. Plus being a grad student was an awesome way to meet girls (my uni was two thirds girls), which also totally worked, as that’s how I met my wife.
Hah! Very nice. Yeah, as a psych major I was in very female heavy classes as well… that worked well for me at the time too. Sort of. I met the girl I thought I was going to marry, proposed our senior year, and then after graduation things fell apart. But, that’s just the way these things go sometimes.
Wow, what did I miss when I was dusty and dirty and off the grid?
Nothing worth mentioning, really. And it wasn’t one or two posts that set me off, just an accumulation of things from the last year and a half I’ve been on here reading and posting.
Sometimes disheartening, yes?
Yes, very much so.
I no longer engage in that sort of behavior.
The name calling? The political posts? The silliness?
Yes. Yes. Oh, my word: no.